#32 Using tender conversations in Advance Care Planning with Dr Kathryn Mannix.

In this episode it is my pleasure and honour to talk with Dr Kathryn Mannix, retired palliative care consultant and best-selling author.

We talk about the tender conversations that underpin Advance Care Planning, how to initiate Important Conversations with people you care about, and reflect on the influence and legacy of Deborah James and Clair Fisher.

Kathryn describes the process of Ordinary Dying, breaking down myths and describing the universally similar yet profoundly individual experience of dying.

Key messages from guest

• Kathryn describes the journey to publishing her first book in 2017 and the impact this book has had.

• It is listening not talking than matters in communication

• Invite a way into an Important Conversation, don’t insist

• Let parents be parents, it can be helpful for children to share their worries “I worry that if you got very sick, the doctors might ask me how you want to be treated and, well…”

• Check information out loud, “have I got it right?” and write it down

• Kathryn talks about attorneys and why it is so important to discuss what matters most when making a Lasting Power of Attorney

• Consider wrapping care decisions around each person’s values

• Kathryn shares the origins of the grass roots project to develop an Advance Care Planning Tool available through Hospice UK

• Kathryn invites us all to feedback on the Advance Care Planning  tool in order to shape future development

• We reflect on the impact of Deborah James and Clair Fisher have had on public perceptions of dying and Advance Care Planning

• Kathryn talks through Ordinary Dying and how “hidden in plain sight it is” likening the sequence of events to  giving birth. The process of dying has a beginning, middle and an end with recognisable stages

Resource

• Access the With the End in Mind written by Kathryn Mannix

• Access Listen: How to Find the Words for Tender Conversations written by Kathryn Mannix

• Listen to David Schneider talk to palliative care consultant Kathryn Mannix 

• Access resource from What Matters Conversations 

• Hear You me and the big C: Putting the can into cancer podcast

• Access link for the Cancer Research UK Bowelbabe Fund for Cancer Research UK - Deborah James  

• Find out more about Clair Fisher and her Dying Well Project 

• Information on the Dying Well: Wellbeing at the end of life A summary of practitioner conversations from the What Works Centre for Wellbeing

• Use the Hospice UK Planning Ahead Tool to help Advance Care Planning and start Important Conversations

• Read the blog Support Planning Ahead: A tool to help DNACPR decision making 

• Watch the BBC video by Kathryn Mannix Dying isn't as bad as you think

• The paper on preserved hearing mentioned by Kathryn: Electrophysiological evidence of preserved hearing at the end of life

Bio

Dr Kathryn Mannix qualified as a doctor in 1982 and she trained in medicine, oncology, cognitive behaviour therapy (CBT) and palliative medicine in the North of England. She was a founder member of the Association for Palliative Medicine. Her clinical and research interests were in palliation of nausea and vomiting, and the application of CBT in a palliative care setting. She was made a Fellow of the British Association for Behavioural and Cognitive Psychotherapies in recognition of her contribution in developing CBT therapy and staff training in palliative care.

 After working in palliative care for 30 years in hospitals, community teams and hospitals, she took early retirement to work for better public understanding of dying. She is on a mission in public education, and her weapon of choice is stories. She writes, lectures and broadcasts widely in the UK and beyond; her first book ‘With the End in Mind’ was shortlisted for the Wellcome Book Prize and is a Times book of the year, and her second book ‘Listen: how to find the words for tender conversations’ was published to critical acclaim in September 2021. She is a proud patron of End of Life Doula UK.

Find out more about my Bespoke Consultancy

• Service analysis for teams seeking to improve EoLC or prepare for CQC

• End of Life Care Education

• Lasting Power of Attorney Consultancy

• Talks and presentations

If you’d like to find out more about my work contact me.

What one thing will you do?

It would be great to share what resonated with you from this episode, what is the one thing you will do differently? Head to Twitter, Facebook or LinkedIn to continue these important conversations.

Thanks to all my guests for working with me to share their knowledge, experience and stories about Advance Care Planning. I hope you enjoyed listening and have insights to take away; I love hearing your reflections on the series and look forward to reviews on Spotify where you can also subscribe to the series.

Clare

Important Conversations about Important Conversations.